why are you so fixated on Wierwille? I will make no argument other than the patent fact that water is involved in baptism. He was just taught by Philip .Again this is almost 3 years after pentecost so if it was so clear why did the Apostles and disciples not understand it. ‘, Have always seen 2 mentioned,one literal othe figurative, “So then, when we read after Pentecost about “were baptzed in the name of the Lord Jesus”, it is clear that this can’t be the water baptism of John”. 3. (And so you or others don’t quickly jump on this paragraph and claim “See, he defends Wierwille doctrine”, I am not defending Wierwille doctrine at all … no more so, than some of you are defending Buzzard doctrine or perhaps the Pope of Rome’s doctrines, etc …). Personal first hand testimonials that witness eachother are not outsider conclusions. https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1540-a-history-of-the-baptism-apostasy (accessed March 20, 2013). He could not have, because he was the one who came after John, and John as a prophet had declared that he who would come after him would baptize with spirit (and NOT with water)! Now, did the one John said who would come after him already come or are we still living in the age of John’s water baptism? If they had been baptized by John or in his name the author would no reason to contrast the 2. The verse should be read in a manner that is consistent with the rest of the NT practice of baptism. of water baptism throughout Pentecostal scholarship by reviewing the major voices within the fi eld. The phenomenon of a fake baptism has popped up across the country due to parents motivated to get their child in a faith school, which can be a higher quality education than a public school (albeit slanted towards a specific faith and their teachings). “ye shall be baptized {notice the passive voice} with holy spirit …” ). Those in the Baptist denomination fall into this category. Every year God required a sacrifice to renew the covenat because sin voided your part of the Agreement. ” Yes, there is …. Peter and John had to travel many days then had to pray then had to LAY HANDS on them. Sending love and best wishes for Ella’s baptism.” “Wishing you joy as Aidan is dedicated. So, instead of a regular ritual immersion that’s done every time that you would go up and worship, the Christians took this same practice of physical immersion into a body of water for the purposes of spiritual purification and adopted this as baptism. Personal first hand testimonials that witness eachother are not outsider conclusions. by whom? your ignorance — despite all your supposed study and investigation — shows once again! The church baptizes by immersion in water in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. So then, do you really think that a preacher even could carry out the immersion baptism of a woman in a river or a lake ? Do you deny the Apostles baptized with water after pentecost? So I do understand what God was saying to Peter about what God has made clean is already clean enough to have the Holy Spirit come upon them. You are neglecting the Samaritans being baptized by Philip which did not involve the Holy Spirit which required Peter and others to come after to lay there hands upon them for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. How Lighting Design Hasn't Changed Thank You For Listening “It was all hand dimmers, and the old dimmer boards were First is this was not first incident where gentiles received the Holy Spirit. Which leads me to conclude that God looks at our heart and how we conduct our lives rather than whether we got our hair wet at baptism, or spoke in tongues when receiving the holy spirit. Over thousands of years Baptism has been a tradition in the Church and Christian communities all over the world. 3:27 John replied, 56 “No one can receive anything unless it has been given to him from heaven. While I dont claim to have a complete true understanding I can safely say without a doubt yours is clearly false on baptism by several very very clear passages . Today, the acts of christening and baptism have changed drastically within the past few centuries. Is Acts 1:5 perhaps a forgery and should read “John truly baptized with water but ye shall baptize others with water in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost not many days hence” ? [12] Bridge, Donald, and David Phypers. People responded to his call for repentance in light of the coming kingdom by “being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins” (Matt 3:6). If you have ever heard the terminology “my christian name”, this is where it comes from. I understand clearly that ” the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River, 55 about whom you testified – see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!”. Even the so-called rebaptism by some Christian denominations is not seen by them as a repetition of an earlier valid baptism and is viewed by them as not itself repeatable. A person was baptized in the name of Jesus, or the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, as Jesus commanded, for the forgiveness of sins and the reception of the Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38). This column presents an overview of ways in which technology and innovation are changing the nature of work, leading to demand for advanced cognitive skills and greater adaptability among workers. Times are changing, and as a result there are far less christenings and baptisms taking place. Or are you reading “water” into verses which do NOT mention any water, thereby making those verses contradict what John and Jesus clearly taught about the sequence of water baptism being carried out by John and spirit baptism replacing John’s water baptism from Pentecost onward? I asked “why wasnt this figured out earlier if what you say about those 2 verses is clear?” Prince George, for example, has seven godparents. “John baptized {notice the active voice} with water …” and with holy spirit baptism he only mentions that they would receive it (i.e. Wolfgang Wolfgang I never knew water baptism for the remission of sins was associated with anything but Christianity. The Water that Divides: The Baptism Debate. Professor of Practical Theology Westminster Theological Seminary in California In 1994 one of our daughters, while away from home attending college, asked me to explain the rationale I saw in … On the grounds that there has been a development of doctrine in the Church, the author of Doors to the Sacred affirms that, Contemporary theology and religious education texts now speak of Baptism as incorporating a person into the life of Christ which is continued in t… He was not immersed or even sprinkled; though we might guess that he received a spiritual baptism when he believed. The main purpose of Wierwelle was exalting himself by making himself a self proclaimed prophet. “A History of the Baptism Apostasy.” Christian Courier. Changing Baptism Arrangement Jesus commanded to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To prepare the way for Jesus, John the Baptist went about crying “Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand” (Matt 3:2). Why Does My Baby’s Chin Quiver Occasionally? Joh 4,1-2 says Jesus baptized more disciples then John which either means they were baptized by him or in his name. This article covers some of the lesser known failed predictions and changed date doctrine of the Watchtower Society. The sacraments of healing are very old and have changed a number of times over the time the church has been around, some changes are significant and some are only minor. the definitions given for the word itself leave various options, among them options other than immersion! There is a major contrast between the baptism of John and the baptism in Jesus’ name that came after . 3:26 So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River, 55 about whom you testified – see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!” Q: How have the seven sacraments changed over time? How can they have manifestations of something without it. Do you have anything that doesnt take massive training to see. “The challenge now is greater than it has ever been because the number of converts is greater than we have ever before known. Now, I am not one who believes that we have to do everything just like it was done in New Testament times. For better or worse, travel—how we do it, why we do it, where we do it, and when we do it—has changed a lot over the decades. New York: Oxford University Press, 2010,  p 115. [14] As a result, adult baptisms became increasingly rarer and the elaborate system of pre-baptismal instruction was naturally replaced by post-baptismal instruction. [3] It can be seen from these texts, that Christian baptism was a response to repentance and belief in the gospel message, and involved receiving forgiveness of sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit. However, the time of upheaval that occurred during the formation of the early church led to an evolution of methods and beliefs concerning baptism. 3.Peter and the rest were ignorant of this change for over 3 years . [6] Edgecomb, Kevin P. “The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus of Rome.” http://www.bombaxo.com/hippolytus.html (accessed March 27, 2013). the former is done with water, the other with holy spirit !”. Later, in the book of Acts, Phillip preaches the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch as he rode along in his chariot. This change of status by the mikvah could be obtained repeatedly, while Christian baptism, like circumcision, is, in the general view of Christians, unique and not repeatable. I wondered what the etiology of “Baptism” was and I’m glad you made reference to that. Xavier The day he took over as CEO of Canadian Tire last March should have been one of the happiest of Greg Hicks’s life. I have no idea whether full immersion is required or not but when I get baptized it will be by full immersion. Feel free to browse through our content here, but we are no longer adding new posts. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1977, p 78. Wolfgang already made it clear water was used in Acts 8 but was disputing total immersion . Baptism is all about changing one’s life. In fact, most godparents are not required to be religious. Maybe you dont understand the events spoken in John were pre-pentecost . Could it be John was decreasing while Jesus was increasing. you still ignore what John and Jesus taught about water and spirit baptism … all your beating around the bush doesn’t change the plain truth of what they proclaimed and what sets the stage for what the Sciptures teach about baptism. “Maybe I missed this, but I’m curious as to whether baptism as a symbolic cleansing of sin was practiced in the Hebrew bible. Baptisms in Lutheran congregations have changed over the years. As i have mentioned before I see water baptism as a sign of entering a Covenant by faith in that it is washing away past sins or as an act of presenting oneself a virgin .I also see other sources for faith such as prayers. It was mainly based on a distinct "dembow" beat with a little bit from other Latin genres which is still found even in today's Reggaeton songs. Water baptism is not mentioned as having anything to do with entering a covenant … not even John’s water baptism! Wolfgang I guess there is no telling what Wolfgang may claim they were baptized with since it is clear in this passage the HS was not used and he claims water was not used. From time immemorial, Christians fasted before receiving the Eucharist. I was and am NOT “examining” Acts 8 … I have commented and asked questions about Acts 1:5 and Mt 3:11 and (as usual?) [18] “Baptists: Salvation by Grace through Faith.” Baptist Distinctives. Any one-time donation to the Bart Ehrman Foundation helps conquer hunger and homelessness. you know, some that I have heard over many years are plainly slander and false accusations … motivated by thoughts of personal revenge,, etc. According Articles XXXIX and XL of the First London Confession by Baptists in 1644, “That Baptisme is an Ordinance of the new Testament, given by Christ, to be dispensed onely upon persons professing faith, or that are Disciples, or taught, who upon a profession of faith, ought to be baptized…The way and manner of the dispensing of this Ordinance the Scripture holds out to be dipping or plunging the whole body under water….” [18]. If one equates “baptism with holy spirit” = “holy spirit in manifestation”, then one would have to say that many or most believers today have not received holy spirit / have not been baptized by the Lord (as was promised would take place from Pentecost onwards) and have only been baptized with water which however did not bring them holy spirit either (as some claim that water baptism now is combined with holy spirit baptism), Wolfgang [1] Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance: New American Standard Bible. [5] Lynch, Joseph H. Early Christianity: A Brief History. However, in the Latin rite (or the Roman Catholic Church), most often Confirmation is not celebrated at the same time as Baptism. Many other denominations hold that baptism is a symbol, rather than a sacrament, and therefore not necessary for salvation. The man spent decades researching the word of God with Walter Cummins and others. The Water that Divides: The Baptism Debate. FYI: even Wierwielle admitted that there is water baptism in the Book of Acts, although he sees it as somehow part of Torah[?!! John the Baptist, who is considered a forerunner to Christianity, used baptism … Every year God required a sacrifice to renew the covenat because sin voided your part of the Agreement. John the Baptist, who is considered a forerunner to Christianity, used baptism as the central sacrament of his messianic movement. The rise in godparents is an incredible trend. The purpose of Holy Baptism. The Bible compares baptism to burial.Romans 6:4; New York: Oxford University Press, 2010, p 115. A.D. 200-258) defends the practice of sprinkling in cases of illness, writing: “You have asked also, dearest son, what I thought of those who obtain God’s grace in sickness and weakness, whether they are to be accounted legitimate Christians, for that they are not to be washed, but sprinkled, with saving water…In the sacrament of salvation, when necessity compels, and God bestows his mercy, the divine methods confer whole benefits on believers; nor ought it to trouble anyone that sick people seemed to be sprinkled or affused, when they obtain the Lord’s grace.”[5]. The majority of baptisms involve newborn infants, who are held over a baptismal font in a Roman Catholic church. Feel free to disagree with us as we all work together to discover the truth of Scripture. Veteran Australian travel writer John Borthwick looks at how far we’ve come (and gone). The third to fifth centuries: The sacrament of Reconciliation was now a public thing celebrated by the whole community. “A History of the Baptism Apostasy.” Christian Courier. He said that it has to be the bishop that confirms. Baptism is also a challenge to keep thinking of yourself that way and to keep living like it. Acts 1:5 and Mt 3,11 are being examined … which of the two baptisms mentioned there by John and by Jesus involves water and which involves spirit? As a materialistic concept of the baptismal water entered the church, the significance of the … Now, I suppose that if you did, you were totally immersed in the river or the ocean? ]: The one question left is “Why do they continue water baptism in the book of Acts after the day of Pentecost?” The Word of God says in Acts 21:20 because “they were zealous for the law.”…That’s exactly why they continued water after the day of Pentecost, on a few occasions, till they finally got to the greatness of the revelation and then there’s no listing of water in the book of Acts. Acts 2:38 Since the beginning the genre was evolving just like any other music. “Didache.” Early Christian Writings. Wolfgang Baptism by fire repalced it after pentecost. I know sprinkling sacrificial blood was “cleansing.”. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ…Since the earliest times, Baptism has been administered to children, for it is a grace and a gift of God that does not presuppose any human merit; children are baptized in the faith of the Church. Nowhere does it state to the exclusion of the other so where do you get one has to replace the other. Wolfgang So if you feel it does not void or prevent why is it you want people to stop doing it? Jesus provided a purified temple for the presence of God to dwell in through perfection in the obedience to God’s Commandments. Do you see John or Jesus mentioning other baptisms? And like many devotions, it has evolved over time. After receiving the gospel joyfully, “he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him” (Acts 8:38). You have to be kidding , did the enuch show manifestations, does the verse even claim he received the HS? Furthermore, he would be flat out contradicting what John had already taught prophetically about the baptism which would be done by the one coming after him ! As for your Acts 10 ideas, you make Peter contradict what Jesus taught about baptisms … I have already discussed the passages in Acts 10 & 11 in detail to show how they are consistent with the rest of Scripture. Wolfgang Most of the time one must be ceremonially washed because of our unrighteousness but righteousness can be accounted by God himself so that the Spirit can work through people temporarily as we see in Acts 10 where Cornelius was already accounted righteous by God . We are “buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God” (Colossians 2:12). 4. In the Bible, one of the first things people did after conversion was to announce it publicly in a ritual called “baptism.” In the history of the church there has been…Continue reading Change and Baptism The word “baptism” comes from the Greek baptizein, ... Over time this word has changed in use and is primarily used today in reference to the … Never in the biblical record is there mention of elaborate ceremonies or alternative methods of baptism, like pouring or sprinkling, as there were in the second and third centuries. 4.During those 3 years none of the events of people receivihg the Holy Spirit reminded them of Jesus’ Words. So you are saying the Apostles only thought it was necessary for gentiles after pentecost? “The point is that John says that “THE PHARISEES HEARD ….” and what they “heard” was obviously not quite correct,”. In accordance with the Lord’s will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism… The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. Now then, were those folks after Pentecost baptized by John or by Jesus when they believed ? He left because the pharisees had found out he was baptizing more than John. Later, in the book of Acts, Phillip preaches the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch as he rode along in his chariot. How Lighting Design has (and hasn't) Changed Over Time “It would be quite dark and quite dull without us.” – Constable (2013) How Has Lighting Design Changed? Constantine changed the relationship of Christianity to the state. May God always bless and watch over him.” “Warmest wishes on Amelia’s baptism day. no guessing needed ….. just need to believe what both John and Jesus taught regarding baptism … John baptized with water, Jesus – who would come after John – would baptize with holy spirit. Over time, Watchtower has changed the question asked prior to immersion, replacing "holy spirit" with "spirit-directed organization," and then removing reference to the "holy spirit" altogether. Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. Speaking and interpreting tongues were a teaching tool for the disciples. “1. Sorry but I have read and studied everything you have with not even a hint of what you say or claim. Is something God ordained and in line with truth just because some people practice it? ). Changed Date Doctrine 1800s. Maybe this is what Peter and John was sent to find out. God always provides for those truly seeking Him so my guess is water baptism was the means of remission of sin during exile or a polluted Temple. [17] “Baptists: Believer’s Baptism.” Baptist Distinctives. A new family: Baptism also connects us to the “body of Christ” – his people in the earth. ( In fact, the Modern Hebrew term for "baptism" is "Christian Tvilah".) I think that every organization/religion has evolved over time. Wolfgang Over time the Church has built on their requirements to be initiated into the Christian faith; from needing a sponsor for 2 - 3 years to changing occupation if not accepted by the Church. which figure of speech is being used and what truth is being emphasized by that figure? We only keep a president for a maximum of 8 years. It seems more massive “un-training” is needed to see the rather simple truth revealed in Scripture … consider what John and what Jesus taught, observe the timing sequence of the baptisms they taught, think logically and on that basis evaluate any other information related to the subject. When one is properly baptized for the right reasons, he or she literally has his or her past sins buried in the baptismal waters and rises out of the waters as a person dedicated to overcoming sin and being “transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2). I have given you verse after verse after verse which CLEARLY witnesses against your claims but for some unknown or maybe known reason you ignore or twist them as you were trained to do. Statistics reveal that only one in three newborn infants are christened in the Church of England back during the 80’s. Who was Jesus who had been given authority to do so From Heaven, “You would be better off to forget about believing and relying on second hand outsider “conclusions” … and to simply acknowledge that you personally don’t know a lousy thing about the man, instead of making a fool of yourself by repeating others’ false assumptions”. 2. You answered no … I am saying that the incident of the first Gentiles becoming members of the body of Christ was rather astonishing and extra-ordinary for Peter …(context makes that rather clear, starting from the unusual revelation Peter was given to even get going to the house of Cornelius) As I have already mentioned, Peter did NOT subject the course of Cornelius to water baptism, even though at first – while he did not remember what Jesus had said – he had commanded a water baptism which however was not – because he did remember what the lord had said – carried out. Acts 2:38 “I do not know why people reading the records somehow do not see this … most likely it has to do with being pre-occupied with “WATER baptism” due to their own experience and church teachings etc …. Wolfgang Confirmation is administered as the same time as baptism, except in the Latin Rite. Since water baptism was for remission of sins just as animal sacrifices were for ,since the head of the family could make this offering I dont see a problem and not sure a married woman or a daughter would be required. Baptism in the New Testament was a simple affair that involved a complete immersion in water. All works about biblical days and culture agrees I’ve ever read agree that men did not touch women in public (some even claim that not even husbands would do so with their wives) in a manner which we see nowadays when people in Christian groups carry out their immersion baptisms in water … !! 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The time, is it you want people to stop doing it s a washing away of and.

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